Painting the Town /RDM

Yeah thats right, leveling enhancing through spamming the bar spells got boring. Well, i wouldnt say that it got boring. More like unproductive. It seems that leveling enhancing magic skills behave very similar to leveling crafts.

There is a sweet spot, and an almost dead spot. To further the parallel, when you first start leveling a craft you seem to just trip over skillups. +.2's +.3's Spill out of your synths. It doesnt matter what day, what moon, nothing matters skillups just come rolling in faster than a fat chick can get to a KFC. But once you hit level 50 things slow down quite a bit.

I would say the same difference in the quantity and quality of skillups in enhancing @170 would be the same as the difference in quality and quantity of skillups of a level 50 craft. The +.4's and +.5's are nonexistant. And the pittly +.1's and +.2's are few and far between.

So once i got Enhancing to level 175. And began to put on some gear to experiment with the combo when i got a tell from Donavan. The self proclaimed inventor of PLD/RDM that doesnt have his enhancing skill capped off. Hehehe, I love this guy. Hes so arogant and cocky it endearing to me. Since he made some jokes about my stealing the whole PLD/RDM idea from him, I though I'd take the opretunity to ask him to show me some of the ropes realy quick.

15 minutes and some macro's later we were off. I went in a DD/Tank hybrid, he went complete defense. Both of us went out Sword and Shield. The only main difference, besides my ethereal and gear choices, was that he had his enhancing up towards 186 ish while i was about 10 levels lower. We duoed for a little while, and the experience left me with nothing but respect for the job combination.

Infact, it left me wondering just how powerful the combo could actualy be. I saw him solo DC tigers with complete ease. Those son of a guns tear through shadows with a vengance. But, they just cannot stand up to a PLD's raw defensive prowess enhanced through Phalanx and Stoneskin. It realy was impressive. He didnt even have to cure once. The total damage he recieved barely warranted a Cure III. And the MP he consumed... He could've done 3 tigers in a row without resting or using Chivalry.

To put that in perspective for you guys... I'm no slouch. I can get Utsusemi: Ichi back up, even on those fast ass tigers; hell, i bet i could even hold a seminar on how to do it. But they fly through the shadows so fast that at most i would be able to get through one tiger. And I would be so spent that I would need a complete rest before trying another.

After the breif exposition, we decided to go /NIN and head out to EXP. He found a bard willing to party with us, and the burn party was on! Sure, it got a slow start as the Nin did not have the mamool ja staging point but that was soon fixed. I guided him there as Donavan found us a 6th member, a War.

All in all it was an enjoyable Burn party, PLD PLD WAR NIN RDM BRD. I made about 30k in close to 3 hours. And most chains were only ruined by a lack of mobs, or the RDM missing the fact that a Scoffin gave itself an evasion boost. The especialy fun fact was that Donavan and i were both holding our own against the WAR and the NIN. My all time high on Vorpal Blade was a 846, while Donavan hit a massive 930 Vorpal Blade.

Before you make fun of me about the whole WS thing, keep in mind that i was going Justice/Joy while Donavan was going Company/Joy. Donavan has a pretty decent WS settup, i have no WS settup. I was shocked realy. His outlook on PLD DD gear is a polar opposite of mine, yet he realy was holding his own. DoT wise i bet i cranked out more as i had two multi hit weapons and at least some haste, not to mention 4 sword merits, and Meat working on my side.

Never the less i cashed in my 3 merit points. and got te reply "Your Sword Skill modification has rizen to level 5!" Very cool. Now i am only 80k limit points from capping of Sword Skill entirely.

The next day i figured it was time to start solo training on /RDM. The first thing i did was get a spider down to 25% and drop my Stoneskin to see just how much i would get hit for on average. I was shocked to see some 0's mixed in with 13-30 damage per hit. I knew i was in love lol..

Also, you would be suprised how often enfeebles actualy stick. Even when it is only a sub job. I thought there wouldnt be a snowballs chance in hell of it landing. Truth be told, at times it would take a few casts, but i can get them to stick eventualy. Especialy the MND based ones. I dont know why, but i have a much harder time landing the INT based ones. I thought MND or INT only effected the quality of enfeebles, not the chances of them landing. Never-the-less i was even dispelling trolls in besieged by the third cast. And thats not bad in my book.

I immidiately went and got some +enhancing gear to round out the differance between what Donavan used in his demonstration. I bought an enhancing torque, and dug out my Gallant Breeches. Which gives me a total of +12 to my enhancing skills. Yeah, i cheated. hehehe. I also bought a Rapier Belt. You know, the belt with a latent effect of +5 Sword Skill that just happens to activate with, you guessed it, a RDM sub. So for a paltry amount of gill i was able to jack my enhancing skill up to 187 and my sword skill up to 291.

All of it was cheep too. I think it all ran a total of 20k. Probably because nobody uses the stuff. I kind of like making items nobody uses... useful. It adds to the whole originality of it all.

I quickly grew tired of Spiders, although i farmed enough silk to pay for the items i just purchased assuming they are still 3-4k each, And headed out to those tigers the next day.

Spiders were EP while these tigers are DC. It doesnt seem like alot of a difference... but the increased level combined with a tigers enhanced speed/double attack proce rate/ and paralyze make them much more difficult than a silly spider by design. I buffed completely, rested to full MP. Made absolutely sure not to get a link. Then pulled.

AND

They were a joke.

No kidding lol, I am completely impressed with the job combination in every way. Once you get a feal for how long Stoneskin lasts your in buisness. By the end of the night i had figured out how to clear out the clearing i was at of all tigers. All of them!

This simply would not be possible on /NIN. No way no how. Not oly that but i can do this in the gear i leveled PLD to use, Heavy Metal Plate sets! What more could i ask for. I know i can do DC tigers, DC marloro's would be quite a different matter though. Those things were barely soloable on PLD/NIN just like the tigers. The main difference is that they hit like trucks. I wouldnt doubt if 2 hits could take out my Stone skin. Then again, I was in my DD gear at that moment. Perhaps /RDM would stand a chance against those.

I think I will stick to Tigers/Spiders until my enhancing skill hits a natural 180. Then i might look towards finding a suitable T mob to look at. Thats a while from now though.

On a side note, nearly every chocobo digging area has market has officialy crashed. There is so little money in chocobo digging now it isnt funny. I swear if i didnt have my crafts to refine some of the things i dig up... there would be no point to it. Making some items worth 3-5k more than the base ingredients dug up, is realy coming in handy.

But, I haven't farmed since i started leveling my shiney new RDM subjob. And funds are starting to get well below my safety zone. Hell, i have even begun getting to HNM pop areas without using a single oil or powder. So, far I figured out that i can train the entire Kuftal tunnel, and the next area on the way to ASPI. LMAO, It was too easy actualy. Only got hit 3X in Kuftal, and 2X in the next area.

Good to know.

Well, have fun guys. bbl

RDM 37 and NIN 37!!!

I finaly hit RDM 37! I made a party and rolled on into the crawlers nest and leveled it that final level. Dont worry i didnt just ditch them i replaced myself with a corsair and all were happy.

The hunt for Phalanx still rolls on. True to form, two more cheep ones sold while i was at school. While, only one was still up for auction... guess for how much. Thats right, later that night another sold for 50k. :/ wonderful. No matter, i still need to skill up enhancing to even put it to any good use at all.

I sure am happy im out of the leveling scene though. Now i have more time for HNM again. I actualy missed hanging around with the LS for that. I'm realy starting to feal at home in BBQ now. And that makes me feel good. Up till now i have felt a little like an outsider in the LS.

But we camped fafnir again, as per usual. But lost claim to TK. The next day Niddy popped and TK got that as well. On the bright side at least it popped yellow for me this time, for a fraction of a second. I simply got beat to the claim. Thats better than usual for me. Perhaps it had to do with only 89 or so people being in the Aery. Usualy its far more. Its a good thing only N. legs dropped, i think.

One thing i saw was that TK beat Nidhogg with only 10 people and a spike flail. :/ I dont like that. For some reason I want the HNM with the best, and therefore most sought after, drops in the game to be rougher on 10 people than what it was. Especialy when it only pops every 4-7 days. Call me crazy.

But on to the big news!!!! Seraphpdh finaly leveled his Ninja Subjob! XD another PLD/NIN is born hahaha. Now if only i can convince him to level /RDM for solo goodness. He was so... not liking leveling that sub that i cant bear to tell him to level it. It took him ages to do it lol. But now its done. He never has to touch it again. CONGRADULATIONS!

While Seraphpdh gets used to Utsunemi: Ni I will be leveling my enhancing skill. I already started doing that. I moved to Art Arhun, just outside the MH. Because, well noone hangs out there. Who ever goes to that spot is either warp taruing away or back alleying there way closer to the main exit of the city.

I jacked my enhancing skill up from 132 to 151 in the matter of a couple hours. Yeah, its going to take me a while to do it. But /RDM is nothing without capped enhancing skill. I though i might have been able to get by without capping it, but yesterday before i logged on to try it out, I checked the alla forums only to find that there was a post from a Paladin/Red Mage with 133 Enhancing skill that was a bit underwhelmed. EP's were laughable and didnt even break his stoneskin while phalanx was up. But he was having difficulty with DC's.

Oddly enough, the difficulty he described verses DC was the same difficulty i had with DC's. It was a close fight. But to his, and my, encouragement many pld/rdm posted to let him know just how important enhancing skill is. And that things are sooooo much easier with that capped off. So, before i even give it a whirl I'm leveling my enhancing.

I do have a couple questions though. Perhaps a someone who plays more of a mage role than i do would know the answer. I know that there is a commonly used equation for how much "HP" Stoneskin has and an equation for how much damage is prevented through the use of Phalanx. But, I dont know what the equations are. Does anyone know? It would be appreciated.

RDM 36?!

I realy dont know how i got this far lmao. It seems the key to leveling a subjob is simply not dieing. I have been spending alot of time in Garlaig Citadel, leveling as of late. The only problem is that RMT are there too.

Swarms of RMT. There has been 2-3 camps of them in that place for almost 2 weeks. Some "leveling" at the entrance and others leveling at the first gate. I say "leveling" because that group near the entrance is realy bad. I was there for about 4 hours and one of there members Deleveled 7 times. Yes, thats right, we kept count.

Delevel
Level
Delevel
Level
Delevel
Level
Delevel
Level
Delevel
Level
Delevel
Level
Delevel
My party disbanded.

It was realy funny actualy. The only complaint i had was the complete disregard they had for other parties in the area. Literaly fighting with your bats imbedded in our bad is not nice at all. Sure, nothing bad can come of it. In terms of AoE damage, or something, but its just plain rude.

In an attempt to give them a lesson in respecting other parties, i actualy cure bombed there tank with blaze spikes up. Yeah, it takes alot for me to do something like that. But, these guys realy deserved it. Come to find out, as soon as I try something like this, they nerfed the whole blaze spikes trick.

When did they nerf that? If anything it amounted to a minor annoyance. A little /slap your being an ass type of a thing if you will. But i degress.

At about 33 i went to level in Purgonorgo Isle. Yeah, I actualy convinced an exp to head out there. All it took to convince them was 20 RMT clogging the arteries of Garlaige Citadel haha. I must say, Purgonorgo Isle is a great spot to EXP 31-34. Much better than Garlaige Citadel, in every way.

The enemies were closer to our level, so they went down much faster. No possible agro, only links to worry about. Much more space, so you can spread out more. No people, for good or bad only people on a mission are seen in that place so all of the mobs are yours. You can kill anything there, but Mandies and Birds are prefered. Chain 5 is easy.

The single draw back to Purgonorgo Isle is the travel time. You need to make sure your party is going to be around for 2-3 hours for it to be realy fun there. But, if you want a good time and good exp yet hate the experience of the first couple levels in Garlaige Citadel, i highly recommend Purgonorgo Isle.

If you dont know where it is, all you need is CoP installed. You head out to Bibiki Bay and take the manaclipper to your final destination. Just one thing you need to note. The mana clipper goes to 3 destinations. So, make sure that your on the right ship.

I reached level 36 RDM in Garlaige Citadel last night. I am glad its almost over, i need to get this done so i can work on capping my enhancing skills. Then practice the workings of PLD/RDM. Its the first step in the proccess.

I have all of my spells, with the exception of two, Bio II and Phalanx. Bio II doesnt bother me too much, it will be useful in level capped PvP but thats about it. And it wasnt on the AH when i checked or id have it. What does bother me is Phalanx. There is almost always one up on the AH. But when i am sleeping/working/at school or whatever one or two sell at 5-8k. Yet when i log on there is one left at an obsurdly over exagerated price. The last one sold at 50k. thats 10X the regular price. Of course i didn't buy it. Some realy realy impatient person bought it.

I just hope thats not going to be the running trend with phalanx, as i will need it in about a month. I have yet to get RDM37, let alone cap off enhancing skill. So, i have time to get it at a decent price still.

With RL the way it is, I havent been able to enjoy endgame with BBQ as of late. It seems when im on Kings are done. I have "skipped" out on a couple events. But when i say a couple, i mean literaly a couple. not alot. Its just that i have been realy bogged down lately.

Sure, i spent 6 hours online yesterday. But i shouldnt have. I realy realy realy shouldnt have... I am realy paying for it now lol. I shouldve done some RL things, but nooo i had to play! stupid stupid...

Well thats what i have been up to. It isnt much but hey, RL is buisy atm.

What is it about Kahzam...?

I hit level 29 on my RDM sub job last night. I actualy soloed straight to level 25. Well, there were a few impromptue duo levels mixed in to what i call solo.

But at level 25 i decided to try Kahzam. I was so bored of worms. 10 levels of soloing worms was starting to make me a bit stir crazy! But to go off on a tangent, i already see what people mean when they say how good RDM is at soloing. Its a beast! Flame Spikes, En- Spells, Regen, and mabey an enfeeble was all i needed to blow through 2-3 worms at 40-75 exp a peice before i had to recast (not rest mind you) I would get a nice 400 exp before i would have to do that.

Competition for worms, and the worms themselves, got old once i went off to try the same at Qufim. There were 2 parties exping on worms at the time. Thats 2 too many hehehe.

Once i got to Kahzam i threw up my party flag. Hell, im a mage! i should get good invites right? hehe, not necisarily. It took an hour and a half to get an exp party. Its a "good" thing my professors decided to give me HW/Tests to do over the holidays.... I guess.

I was kind of anxious to see how well my enfeebles would stick on EXP party quality enemies. I even grabed a somewhat underwhelming +20 MP in gear and some 99 stack ginger cookies, but mostly i was in solo gear. You know the +evasion +agil stuff that works nice on EP and DC enemies. Yet in an EXP they dont help at all! Yeah, that stuff.

At first i was backup healing/enfeebling. It was fun paralyzing, blinding, and slowing down a foe till it screamed. And after i built some confidence i was meleeing with the others. I was actualy in on the SC with a THF in party, and MBing my own SC's. That was fun as well.

But, i must say... after level 27 it already got old to me. Now it just feals like a grind. Yay, i paralyzed another mob... yay i blinded another mob. Woooohoooo lol. I supose its not any funner once RDM hits 41 either. Having people constantly ask for refresh. And it you get snippy about it they just kick you. I am glad I am only going to 37.

I started to feal the same way about WAR, NIN, and BLU when i was leveling those in Kahzam. I dont know why. That place just saps the fun right out of jobs for me. Like a giant leech!

Perhaps it is because by level 27 you expect more our of a job. Sure its just the begining of the road. However, I get impatient about this sort of thing. Maybey its that i see the goal and its relatively close, yet still a foreboading amount of exp away. Maybey its because I have already religated it to a subjob in my mind.

Its most likely a combination of all three of those issues. On the bright side i remember fealing the exact same way with NIN. And i love to sub that now. I suspect ill find equal enjoyment in /RDM.

After all, I cant tell you how many pld's out there have told me /RDM was made for PLD. And how its the only way to solo. And i am inclined to agree from what i see while soloing w/o phalanx and stoneskin yet. I shall see.

At the very least itll be damn fun to walk into besieged and piss off some mnk or blu lol.

Leveling RDM Solo

I'm used to it ;)

Just hit 17RDM/8RNG last night. Why /RNG you ask? Well the answer is simple, im soloing worms in Korrokola Tunnel for a whopping 200 exp a pop! Its realy easy actualy. All im doing is Bio/Poisoning them till they are about 25% HP then Sharpshotting them to death. Besides, whats the use of /WHM or /BLM if chances are your just going to be rasped anyway, thereby preventing you from resting MP.

Each kill probably takes about 6-7 minutes. Which is bad by full party standards, but for solo.. I like it. Now that I leveled a little bit i figure the kills will come quicker because of the skill cap raise to my archery. Truth be told, The kills have been comeing much faster.

I must be doing pretty well, because i see level 20's going in with PL's to level. While I was there soloing them since level 15. Honestly, its not like its difficult work soloing worms. Two +racc rings, some suishi, capped Dark and Enfeebling skill makes life much easier in that way.

I am a bit happy that I went all this way Solo so far. I am even happier that the worms still give 200 exp a kill. So i can get quite a few levels where in Korrokola Tunnel before i need to move on.

I say Solo, but i did have one JP party. I was the only NA in it though some spoke perfect english. I got this party in the dunes, and waited around for 40 minutes before a WHM surfaced. Then we could barely kill T mobs. So, the entire party moved to Korrokola Tunnel in hopes of better exp. *read: to die, and die alot.*

It took me about 5 hours to get 2k exp and level 15 in that party. And, that was with a PL. O.o I honestly think that the only reason i leveled through that party is because i survived it! lol. We had no SC, We had a WHM/DRK as main heal, We had a DRK/WHM who fealt the best use of his MP was Protectera. It was interesting to say the least.

After that experience i said to myself, just freaking solo. At the very least solo past the dunes. So here i am, soloing in Korrokola Tunnel.

I did have a NIN to keep me company though. For about an hour. We just couldnt out run Stonega. Not only that but we werent far enough apart and were Stonegaing each other. ; ; horrible. The odd thing is that as soon as he left i was back to soloing, and was dodging almost every spell again XD. Its strange how that happened.

Not long after that I dinged 17RDM XD.

Hey, if anyone wants to duo worms (that knows how lmao) in Korrokola Tunnel I'd love the company. It gets kind of lonely in there just watching gillsellers farm the crap out of Morion Worms.

XD cyal round!

RDM exploits!

So, as i mentioned before i am leveling my RDM sub. Ive read evnough about it to perk my curiosity enough to try it out on my PLD. However, first i need to level it.

Thats ok, leveling a new sub is kind of exciting. And fun. Luckily i didnt have to level a sub for my new sub. I can only compare it to how fun i find it to level new crafts (pre 50). Leveling is so much easier. Its also less of a grind because i am still figuring out how the job works.

Levels 1-6 were pretty normal. I saw very little difference between RDM/BLM and PLD/WHM. Pretty much all you use is your sword and sheild because everything just dies far to fast to warrant any enfeebles.

At level 7 i moved further into East Sarutabaruta as to keep up with a minimum of 40 exp per kill. Things start to become a bit more interesting at this point. Its no longer kill/cure. Now blind and paralyse are realy pulling their weight. For having an gimp sword (have a Xiphos instead of a Spara) i am still killing things in about 4 hits. AND earning 40-100 exp while doing it. XD fun fun

One thing is definately true, mage food is crap at this level. DD food is the way to go ;) I am using Meat Cheifkabobs and even though it brings -2 INT the +5 STR and +Attack% is worth its weight in gold.

So here i am Slaughtering bees/crawlers. I'm in no rush with this sub. Hell, ill probably just solo it to 37. Well, until i find a better way to suppliment my chocobo digging returns. Its fun though.

I must say i thoroughly enjoy watching a monk yagudo paralysed 3X and miss me 6X because of only 2 enfeebles while i just ping away at its HP bar with a silly xiphos lmao.

I am almost level 9 RDM/BLM now. Not bad for about 4 hours total of leveling, even if i do say so myself. just 28 more levels to go before i need to work on capping off enhancing magic skill. ;)

Fun times ahead, at least it will be interesting to see PLD/RDM in action first hand. Now i just gotta figure out how to get those new ice spike gloves they released and buy a ice spike sheild. O.o Hows a PLD/RDM with those sound to you? lol

No Money Mo Problems

Since this fatigue system kicked in, with chocobo digging, i have been fealing the pintch. My usual haunts have been killed off. SE realy screwed the pooch on their alteration to Chocobo digging. They dramaticaly increased the drop rates of items, while implementing a @15 stack rule before you cannot get any more items. I just cant make enough gill in them to justify going out there anymore. To those who dont dig, and therefore dont understand what i am talking about, here is my synopsis of what happened.

The @15 stack of greens Is a rediculously small amount of greens to use. You can blow through 15 stacks of greens in less than one chocobo trip once you have a 0 wait time between digs. I used to be able to go on 6-7 trips, loaded with greens, and dig up a storm. Not anymore. Now i have to try to find an area that isnt dug out, and make gill in one trip worth of greens. I used to average about 300k per day chocobo digging. Now, i average 50-70k a day. :/

The increased drop rates... You know sometimes i yearn for the old days of chocobo digging. At first you would say, "Increased drop rates! yes!", however let me show you what increased drop rates have played a factor in doing to chocobo digging. Dark Steel Ingots went from 30k down to 13k. Adaman Ores went from 70k down to 8k. Orcalcium Ores dropped from 250k down to 90k. Gold Beastcoins Dropped from 20k down to 5.5k. Mythril Beastcoins dropped from 4k to less than 1k. Petrified Logs dropped from 25k down to 3k. And my personal Favorite, Philosophers Stones dropped from 150k to 20k...

I waited this long to join on the SE hating band wagon for a reason. I was hoping that the newer chocobo abilities would help "dig new items unique to chocobo digging"; and that Discernment would oh, "improve Digging results". Both are Quotes from SE. Both are completely misleading, as per usual.

First, let me discuiss the Chocobo Abilities known as Bore and Burrow. Both of these abilites are suposed to add new items into the area's you dig in. I'll use Alteph as an example. These are the drops in Alteph with a rental.

East Alteph
Pebble Very Common
Bone Chip Very Common
Giant Femur Very Common
Zinc Ore Common
Silver Ore Common
Wyvern Scales Uncommon
Mythril Ore Rare
Platinum Ore Very Rare
Philosopher's Stone Very Rare

West Alteph
Pebble Very Common
Bone Chip Very Common
Giant Femur Very Common
Zinc Ore Common
Iron Ore Common
Coral Fragment Uncommon
Darksteel Ore Rare
Gold Ore Very Rare
Philosopher's Stone Very Rare

As any HEMLer can see choco digging works just like Logging, Mining, and Harvesting. Every time you dig you have a chance to dig up one of these items. Some items are more common than others. Imagine Mining, Logging, Harvesting with a Fatigue that runs out in about 30 minutes and trying to come out with a "very rare" item. Then you know what its like choco diging. Nowadays an A20 digger can come out of the altephs with 1-2 philosopher stones, 2-4 Gold Ores, @7 Coral chips, @4 Wyvern Scales guaranteed before fatigue, on a Rental.

But, for those of us that sunk 3 months into a Chocobo, IF you even managed to learn a digging ability, you now have access to new items in the treasure pool. It would be awesome if not for the fact that these wonderful new items did not consits of Grain Seeds, Wildgrass, and other items which are not worth the price of a choco green itself.

Gee thanks SE. In effect you added Special abilities which actualy decreases the amount of gill earned/green bought. Now A20 diggers come out of Alteph with considerably less money items that people actualy want. About half as much gill/green is made in the Altephs with a fully upgraded Chocobo vs. a Rental.

So, I still havent been able to buy my second Snipers Ring. With LS events I often spend the whole amount i dug the night before. So, at the moment Chocobo diggin barely covers my daily expences. Until i figure out a way to get more out of it... I will need to find a way to supplement the gill i make from it. After 50k a day is tough to run on, even for a PLD. Hell, Shiehi cost more than that sometimes, then tack on food, oils, powders, warp cudgels... the crap piles up.

Dont get me wrong Choco digging still makes money. Just not nearly as much as it did. My all time high on a digging trip was 835k in 10 stacks of greens. With how the prices have dropped i will never reach that again, not until something has changed.

So, until i figure something out, i have been soloing on RDM. It seems just as effective as /NIN if not better for soloing. At a drastic cut in price. I figure i use 6-7 Shehei per 50 exp gain (solo)So i have taken that up. Ive been soloing outside Windy for a while last night. Got to level 6 off of bees/rabits lol. And out of those 6 levels i am still working on my first stack of honey O.o Oh yeah, i Must finish that stack of honey!

I must say that capped parry/Shield makes me very happy. Combine that with some meat cheif kabobs that i had lying around and i am a bee killing machine. Dispite having a wax sword and a Shield w/o anything else for gear lol.

Sword and Sheild FTW!

It is a little nerve wracking waiting for poison to wear off though. Especialy when my HP is in Whitegate O.o/

All in all im still having fun! I hope you guys are too.